The Theology of Eternal Rewards

Katie (00:03.906)

Well done, good and faithful servant. I’ve heard speakers tie this to generosity many times. And of course we all want to hear that, but what if heavenly reward isn’t payment for what we did on earth? So I’m gonna say that again. What if heavenly reward is not payment for what we did during our time here on earth? Is it okay to be motivated by reward?

These are questions that Eric and I are tackling today on today’s Smarter Generosity episode. I’m Katie Brewbaker.

Eric (00:38.267)

And I’m Eric Fleshett.

Katie (00:40.59)

All right, Eric, let’s start with a disclaimer about this episode, just at the top. At the top.

Eric (00:47.742)

Well, yeah, we wanna acknowledge that, hey, we’re gonna talk about some deep things. We’re gonna get into some theology today. And just just want to share what we’ve been meditating on, how it’s formulated our thinking, and I think it’ll be beneficial and uplifting, but we wanna say, Hey, there’s room for disagreement. These aren’t these aren’t issues of of salvation or

you know, whether we can have fellowship with one another. We hold these things loosely because they are difficult, they are deep, but we do think they’re worth talking about because there is th we all want to know the truth about what God’s word teaches around these things. And that’s that’s our heart here.

Katie (01:33.71)

Right. Thank you. So let’s let’s jump right in then. I’m gonna start with a question for you of when people hear rewards in heaven, right? A lot of us picture a mansion, maybe a crown, jewels. Where do you think that picture came from? And is that an accurate picture of what rewards looks like?

Eric (01:58.934)

Those things do come, they are based on the Bible. The Bible in about five places talks about crowns. There’s the crown of life, which is talked about. And there’s there’s and so people take that and they envision I’m when when God says, Well done, he’s gonna be simultaneously crowning my head with with you know that’s the that’s the imagery that can creep into our imaginations.

Katie (02:22.86)

Mm-hmm. Yes. Right.

Right.

Eric (02:29.341)

So it is based on scripture, but if you if you read those carefully, you realize this this is these are metaphors, these are representations of things. the author using language that to to to describe something that is difficult to describe, or it’s a it’s a it’s a symbol, let’s say, the crown of life, meaning

You are being given eternal life. That’s the crown of life. That’s the that’s the reward you know in view at that point in the scripture is eternal life. and then of course the mansion’s idea comes from something that Jesus said about, hey, I’m going away, but don’t worry, I’m coming back. And my father, my father’s house has many rooms. Some of the translation says, say,

those rooms are mansions. My father has many mansions. And so the, you know, that idea of, hey, I’m gonna have a big house in the sky by and by, is based on that that part of scripture.

Katie (03:42.543)

So what would you say to those of us who I mean, I and I’ve I’ve grown up sort of thinking about that. I I may I may not necessarily tie it to how I give or how much I give. but maybe I mean I’m sure that creeps in there too. So as I’m giving, maybe it’s a Western mindset of you’re almost paying it forward in a sense.

Eric (04:12.276)

Yeah.

Katie (04:12.37)

Of I’m building my own mansion with what I do here on earth. Does that make sense? I feel like that’s kind of in the in the back of whether it’s it’s never the entire motivation, of course, but it’s there. So what would what would you say to those of us who that’s sort of in the back of our minds?

Eric (04:18.196)

Yeah.

Eric (04:32.345)

I would say, hey, I I I join you in this journey of understanding what what is the right way to understand this? I think what got one of the things that got me wondering about this was you know, what is my what is my motivation? What is the right does does Jesus hold out a re reward as motivation at the scripture? And if he does, what is the reward he’s holding out?

Katie (04:59.306)

And is it okay to be motivated by rewards?

Eric (05:02.439)

Yeah, yeah. And and as I thought about the mansion thing, I was like, Well, Jesus is telling me, it seems like the scripture is Jesus is saying, Don’t make pursuing mansions on earth your goal in life. You know, materialism. That’s not right. So then I asked myself, Well, then why is it okay to pursue it as a heavenly reward, right?

Katie (05:20.664)

Mm-hmm. Right.

Eric (05:28.585)

Like if it’s not right to do on earth, if if I’m missing the mark by doing that on earth, why wouldn’t I be missing the mark by living for that in the future in heaven? Same thing with crowns. you know, what and so I I then if that’s not the right thing to be motivated by, then what is the right motivation?

Katie (05:36.748)

Right. Mm-hmm.

Eric (05:53.992)

What is Jesus holding out as our reward? I began to answer ask these questions, trying to figure out how do I align my heart to what Jesus is really holding out in the scripture.

Katie (06:07.502)

So what was your conclusion? What is the reward if it’s not the mansions and the crowns and the jewels?

Eric (06:15.955)

Yeah. Well, one one key scripture for me has been something has been John seventeen. John seventeen is known as the high priestly prayer. This is Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane, the night before he is crucified. He’s there with his three most trusted disciples, and we get a glimpse into the most intimate prayer.

Extended prayer that Jesus gives in the New Testament between him and God the Father. But I think this high pre this is an amazing prayer, but there’s one verse in particular that I think is one of the most astounding verses that’s in the whole Bible. It’s John 17, 13, where Jesus says, and I’m reading from the New International Version, but I say these things while I am instill the world.

So that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. Okay, did you catch that? Jesus is saying that our destiny, his, he’s, he’s praying that the full measure of his joy will be inside of us. Now let’s think about who we are talking about here? Jesus, the Son of God. Jesus, a full-fledged member of the Trinity.

Who knew infinite bliss and joy before the world was ever created in the fellowship of the Trinity? this is a joy at a level you can’t even imagine. This is divine joy. And he’s saying the full measure of it, he wants to be within us. Okay, when you start, when you start thinking through, it’s like what

That sounds like an awesome reward. What what mansion could beat could beat that? What crown could be better than that to have the very joy of God inside of me in its full measure? Then I also, and this is, you know, the night before he dies, you’re like the most important things are on the mind of Christ at this point. And this is one of this is what’s on his mind. another verse that this sort of points in this direction is in 2 Peter.

Eric (08:33.375)

Chapter one verse four, and again from the New International Version, Peter writes, Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature. What? Participate in the divine nature. Wow. that is astounding.

That we lost sinners are going to be elevated to the place in God’s salvation story that we know what we are we are tasting and participating in his very divine nature in a way that you know is the the per t we’re we’re we’re tasting of it. We’re participating in it. We know it in a in an intimate way.

So I think those two verses blow my imagination in terms of reward. And I realize the reward isn’t a physical mansion. It’s not a crown. It’s not these things. It is God Himself. It is fellowship in the divine Himself. That is my reward. Now, Ephesians, of course, tells us that we have this in a partial way now. God has given us the Holy Spirit as a down.

Katie (09:33.592)

Mm-hmm.

Eric (09:59.272)

a down payment, but that down payment is a guarantee of what is to come. And what is to come is illuminated by these two verses. That I mean, can you imagine a greater reward than that? I can’t.

Katie (09:59.832)

Right.

Katie (10:08.344)

Well and

What what comes to mind too, and I cannot I can’t quote the verse that it comes from, but when it talks about the Lord being our inheritance, so the inheritance piece of it, and that gives context to it. And I tried to look it up really quickly as you were talking and I couldn’t find it. But that also I was like, Okay, that makes sense. That fits in with being a brother and sister in Christ and the Lord being our inheritance then too.

Eric (10:39.987)

Yes, yes. We were we were meant for relationship with him from the very beginning. And the whole story of scripture is how that relationship was broken, how it was restored, and how it will be ultimately consummated and fulfilled. so I that that helps me understand, yes, that that makes so much sense in terms of what to live for.

But it also answers the question is it pro is it a proper motivation for the Christian life?

Katie (11:10.52)

That’s what I was about to ask you. Okay, yeah, let’s jump into that. So is it is it wrong to want a re I mean, I think I know the answer based on what you just said. It’s not wrong to want a reward. You know, the motivation is there. and that’s all right. Does that w would you say that working towards a reward makes faith transactional? Like do you do you feel that tension at all when you

Eric (11:39.007)

Yeah.

Katie (11:40.022)

Like how how do you think that fits in together?

Eric (11:42.496)

Well, I I think we have to turn to people smarter than myself to answer these questions. And and and I well I’ve learned I’ve learned from C. S. Lewis on this on this question. You know, he he ra in his writings he raised this question and he he’s he tried to define it in terms of understanding the difference between mercenary rewards and intrinsic rewards.

Now, mercenary reward. When you think mercenary, I my mind immediately goes to the Hessian soldiers. I happen to be descended from a Hessian soldier who came over, you know, who’s fighting on the wrong side. But you know the story of the Hessians. They were paid by Great Britain. They were, they were from Germany and they were rent a soldier. It was like rent a cop, you know. So, so the idea of mercenary means they’re, they’re, they don’t really have any skin in the game. They’re just they just came over to do a job.

Katie (12:16.366)

Of course you are. Yes.

Katie (12:27.542)

Right, yes. Mercenary, yeah.

Eric (12:36.137)

To fire some guns just here for the paycheck. They’re not trying to establish a new nation. They, you know, so, so their reward, which is the pay they get, is not intrinsically connected to the activity that they were a part of. For the Patriots, for those in America who were fighting for their freedom, what was their reward wasn’t a paycheck.

Katie (12:36.248)

They’re just here for the paycheck. Right.

Katie (12:55.808)

I see, yes.

Eric (13:05.821)

Right. Their reward was getting a new nation, being independent. So that that was the intrinsic reward versus the mercenary reward. And we see this in our everyday lives too. Like, how do you motivate when your kids don’t want to study, right? They don’t want to do their homework. Are you gonna do you sit down and do you lecture them about the benefits of learning and how learning is a reward in and of itself? That’s true. That is true.

Katie (13:09.038)

Mm.

Katie (13:32.504)

I have said that, yes.

Eric (13:35.347)

That is the that is the intrinsic reward. But we often offer these mercenary rewards like, hey, we’ll go out for pizza if you do your homework tonight. That’s a mercenary reward.

Katie (13:38.531)

Right.

Katie (13:47.821)

Which works in the short term for the kids at least. But maybe not maybe not long term. Which is probably part of the growth the the growth process, I would imagine, the maturing in our faith. I mean to keep the analogy, you know.

Eric (13:55.007)

Well

Eric (14:02.707)

Yes. Well well yeah. So extend that to our spiritual lives where it’s the stakes are much higher. And if you’re living your life on the basis of mercenary rewards, the mansions, the the crowns, the literal crowns, the jewels, that you know that that’s a lesser that’s a lesser type of motivation than the

Katie (14:09.058)

Mm.

Eric (14:29.599)

Then the motivation I believe Jesus is holding out, which is what we talked about before, God Himself, having him in a way.

That is is extraordinary and and and by the way, only for us as humans, we are uniquely created for that reward.

Katie (14:49.112)

So, what would you say to the person who’s listening to this and thinking, I’ve never heard this concept before. I only hear this in terms of getting the reward. I mean, if we talk about rewards at all, a lot of times people don’t talk about rewards because we think it’s taboo or we’re not supposed to be, you know, supposed to be completely altruistic. We shouldn’t be motivated by rewards. But if they are, they have been thinking,

Eric (15:04.117)

Yeah.

Katie (15:15.382)

Maybe not as directly as this, but like the more I give, the bigger my mansion will be. And people joke about that all the time. So I know it’s there. So what would you say to somebody who’s hearing this concept for the very first time?

Eric (15:27.795)

Yeah. Well, I realize for some people this could be totally jarring and disorienting, you know, that that we’ve kind of jump plump plumbed down into the deep end way too soon and and they feel a little bit disoriented. And and I just want to say, hey, I’ve been on a journey, you know, I I’ve this is something I’ve enjoyed thinking about and pondering and I’ve been drawn to these scriptures. So but I I hope I hope the conversation will at least stimulate

people’s thinking to ra around these issues. And and like I said, I’m not the first person to think about this. We’ve got C. S. Lewis to thank for some of these ideas. but I do think it is important because how we think about our reward has everything to do with our life of generosity now. That mercenary reward structure is not sustainable. It doesn’t last

Katie (16:24.92)

What do you mean?

Eric (16:28.621)

if if you know, if your if your motivation is, hey, I I will only I will only do my homework if I get a pizza afterwards. There’s only so far you can get in your education if that is the motivation that you rely upon. At some point you have to turn the corner to enjoying education for education itself. The joy of learning itself is the reward. And

It’s very that that’s that’s kind of what I want to encourage people to think about and and that’s you know what I’ve what I’ve experienced.

Katie (17:09.048)

I liked how you brought that back around to generosity. And in a few of these episodes, we’ve talked about how generosity is formation. Could you say a little bit, just as we wrap this up, what would you say when we’re talking about the concept of rewards? how that fits into the idea of generosity as formation?

Eric (17:35.86)

Right. Yeah, it it it taps into the question of well, why does now matter? If if I’m if we’re all going to heaven and we’re all going to get God as our reward, what what difference does it make now? And I think I think Jesus both Jesus and Paul, their answer in the Due Testament is, you have the ability right now, number one, to start enjoying God right now.

Katie (17:47.374)

That’s a great point.

Eric (18:03.615)

You don’t have to wait till heaven. You can start enjoying him now. You can learn how to train your faculties to be sensitized, to be expanded, so that your enjoyment of God is growing right now. Your capacity for loving God, for enjoying him forever is being developed right now. So, how does that connect to formation? Well,

Generosity, giving. You are, you are setting your heart up. You’re exercising those spiritual muscles which help you take part in the fellowship with God, who is the inventor of generosity. It’s his idea. so you’re participating in the divine nature right now as you give, you practice giving. so why wouldn’t you start it now?

Katie (19:02.818)

Love that. Eric, you have challenged me. You, I’m sure many people who are listening. And in fact, when we first started doing these podcast episodes, I had a friend who said, All right, well, let me know when you get beyond the normal generosity topics, then I’ll start listening. And she, I think we have we have hit that. And this is what episode 11 or 12 or something. We have

We have jumped in, like you said at the beginning, we we are jumping into the deep end in some of these theological concepts and I appreciate you taking the time to share what you’ve been learning, the journey that you’ve been on, and challenging me personally on what reward looks like and

Eric (19:47.827)

Well, I and I wanna thank you for your charitable attitude toward toward this topic. Like we said at the top, you know, there’s these are difficult concepts, they’re somewhat abstract, there’s room for differences here, but it’s all in the spirit of of love at God.

Katie (20:05.194)

Absolutely. Eric, thank you for your time. I look forward to our next conversation.

Eric (20:09.939)

Me too, Katie. All right. See you next time.

This transcript has been edited for clarity and readability. Verbal fillers, repeated phrases, and recording interruptions have been removed.

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